tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1437377958282996862.post2463686993018238353..comments2023-12-01T23:15:04.721-08:00Comments on The view from Brittany: Why Science won't save usDamien Perrotinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01509005954914591838noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1437377958282996862.post-3311430774716469302009-07-22T15:49:24.021-07:002009-07-22T15:49:24.021-07:00Thank you. I appreciate your articles as well, ke...Thank you. I appreciate your articles as well, keeps me thinking and considering wider perspectivesenergyblogTOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12144544670711872552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1437377958282996862.post-73060609521392147202009-07-22T05:44:33.647-07:002009-07-22T05:44:33.647-07:00Why would you assume that the metric for productiv...Why would you assume that the metric for productivity of science measured in patent per invested dollar has any relevance to the question you are addressing? Patent-counts are relevant to the patent office. Pick something else.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1437377958282996862.post-21312127334838068472009-07-21T02:09:24.836-07:002009-07-21T02:09:24.836-07:00David, the exemple you give is just mass-productio...David, the exemple you give is just mass-production after a breakthrough. This happened in every industry in the past -the car and the plane ones to begin with - and of course it always levelled off after a time.<br /><br />The fact is that the productivity of science measured in patent per invested dollar or in patent per working scientist is decreasing, as shown by Tainter and Huebner. You can contest the figures, of course, but do it scientifically.<br /><br />Energyblog, as Tainter demonstrated, collapse, if it happens, will happen everywhere roughly at the same time or not at all. As long as the system of peer polities which makes up today's world holds, it won't allow chaos to spread too much (the key word being too much).<br /><br />As for people finding a new purpose after the collapse - which will be a slow one, remember - I a skeptical. New religions and ideologies will develop, for sure, but most people will do what they do today : survive, fight for a better position in the social order, look for a mate, care for their family and have fun. They will just have to do it in a very different context.<br /><br />You have a very nice blog, by the wayDamien Perrotinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01509005954914591838noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1437377958282996862.post-22783758280800226632009-07-19T19:53:53.522-07:002009-07-19T19:53:53.522-07:00Jane Jacobs explored these themes of loss of knowl...Jane Jacobs explored these themes of loss of knowledge and technical knowledge in her book Dark Age Ahead in 2004, her last book before her death. <br /><br />Instead of Greer's catabolic collapse, Jacobs noted that it only takes the memory of what has been lost to also been lost to result in a Dark Age. <br /><br />What you wrote seems plausible, but combining the two concepts I see instead it taking two generations of neglect for Dark Age mentalities to supercede corrective action. This will depend much on how collapse manifests itself. Since it's unlikely to be at the same moment all around the world it may have no equal example.<br /><br />I"ve often though that as we're forced to reconcile being on only one earth, not six or seven, forced to not grow anymore what is growth? What resource can grow? How will society strive to continue? The answer seems to be education. The wonder of the human mind and finding solutions to our so many different problems are infinite. That is where we can grow infinitely. Not resource based, not killing our good earth, but growing in our vast interests and experiences. <br /><br />Given that there are so many people now and so well educated, I don't have the same dire feeling but rather the beginnings of that moneyless Star Trek universe of peace, bored of sports and finding more interesting things to do than amass things for just the sake of it. <br /><br />We will not travel to the stars by fuel, but the end of the car will just as much wake people out of their purposeless lives to seek something more meaningful to do. That's going to be a good thing. No more Paris Hilton updates. Sports will be played, but for fun and not status. We will sleep at night and wake up during the day. <br /><br />It may end up being that we had been quite literally living in a Dark Age all along, and it took a shock to the system to finally find out our purpose again. <br /><br /> Cheers<br /> walterAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1437377958282996862.post-55071537339496953312009-07-19T17:14:22.064-07:002009-07-19T17:14:22.064-07:00Oh here we go again. The same old doomer ideas re...Oh here we go again. The same old doomer ideas repackaged to assault this time... science.<br /><br />This is nothing new. Just another blogger jumping on the doomer bandwagon, because he thinks he has something unique and creative to "get out there"<br /><br />And this time you got on Energy Bulletin! Good for you! You just hooked a few more gullibles into the doomer trap.<br /><br />And what's your alternative to science? Well because you have all the "self-sufficiency" skills, you'll be able to convince your followers that it's best that they go out on their hands and knees weeding your fields.<br /><br />Now let me give you just one example about how much more scientific progress we can make with less time, energy and effort. And yes, the evil technololgy played a role in this one. The example is that of synthesis of long strands of DNA. In yesteryear, cloning a longer stretch of DNA would have taken you weeks, if not months. Now we simply assemble the sequence on computer and order it online.<br /><br />Hmmm, 2 days work instead of 2 weeks/months. Is that a diminishing return on complexity?<br /><br />If you have something new to say about collapse, please do. But please spare us from your "which idea can we put through the doomer-matic this week" formula.Davidnoreply@blogger.com